Monday, 15 December 2014
Vernacular journey piece and Evaluation
After doing my research i was comfortable to hit the streets with my bike and record my journey to University, But i didn't just want to record my journey but try capture other elements of nature on the way, when i reviewed my video i came across my shadow while riding, i seen it appeared around the area of the old fashioned houses but almost fully disappeared when i was riding past the more modern buildings which i found to be quite spectacular and came up with the ulterior motive of the sun appears and shines on the old and turns away from the advancements of technology and modernism, to further that point, as shown in my piece i have sped up the pars of the video which show modern parts of huddersfield and slowed down/kept the same the out dated, almost country side environment. I believe my research into making this piece has shown through since my first research clip, the guy on his bike with his cat, had a big influence as i have used a few techniques he used in the making of his video such as time lapse and the cut scenes . I have gone off brief a little since the lengh of the piece should only be 30 seconds long and mine is 3 minutes but in order to convey my idea i have had to have it this long since my original video recording was 20 minutes long i have shortened it massively but i believe still demonstrates my understanding of the project. Eventually i will add appropiate sounds to the piece to further support my idea i am trying to bring across.
Cinema 4D lesson #2
Having learn't some new skills in Cinema 4D i went on to create my E4 promotional piece, again to start off with i added an extra theme in the art of The Lord of the Rings. I believe the phrase is witty and quite clever changing 'Ring' to 'Channel' indicates the E4 channel, i also told the E4 logo to swoop around the top 3 words like a ring from left to right then ofcourse i made the E4 logo increase in size indicating then that the E4 logo is RULING. I really like how i went about this piece it was short, sweet and simple to make and eventually sound will be added creating an extended effect.
Thursday, 11 December 2014
Cinema 4D lesson
In the series of Cinema 4D lessons with Jay we explored various simple techniques to get ourselves familiar with the software. A couple for example MoText, Bezier tool, how to incorporate a background, how to incorporate a sky and also lighting, in the first couple of lessons we learnt all these to prepare for making our own E4 commercial piece. This still piece was what i created in my second lesson with a theme from Game of Thrones along with E4. I was just playing with the lighting to make the E4 logo glow which i think is cool, the shadow really helps the piece look more 3D.
After Effects lesson 3
The third lesson with sara was by far my favourite, i drew out 3 copies of my favourite character in my favourite show, Stewie out of Family Guy, in his best form.. Hitler Stewie! i drew 2 copies identicle and my third with a few changes so when i put the three together and looped the footage i came up with a flickering effect. With a wiggle effect i masked out the drawings and made them appear by the effect of rubbing out the paper, i left some lines in to add to the effect and make it look more realistic which, to me came out beautifully, the final thing to do was add some text and what better to add than his famous lines 'Damn You All' which i had swoop in from the side and i also added a stretched effect also 'Victory Will Be Mine' which i used the opacity tool to appear at the end. I loved the lesson i had alot of fun creating this piece.
After Effects lesson 2 piece
My second lesson with sara saw me create my bird piece, with a quick video of a bird i recorded i masked the key feature in the clip and tracked its movements, i then added my own background to it and duplicated it, i then filled 1 of the duplicates with a slight variation of the other colour and enlarged it and my results came to this which was unexpected but a awesome outcome.
After Effects lesson 1 piece
In my first After Effects lesson with sara we created simple human figures in Illustrator then imported them in to AE and animated them really easily, having used AE in the past i went a few steps ahead with changing the opacity the make my man appear and then i had a wonderful idea to make my man imitate characters out of 1 of my favourite shows, South Park. With the head flicking to one side which is the same in south park with 'canadian' characters in their show. I found it to be really cool and great fun.
Meerkat final piece and 250 word evaluation
After finally exporting my Meerkat piece and altering it slightly in Adobe Premier to slow a few key moments down my final piece came out like this.
Evaluation
There is a lot i am unhappy with, the movement doesn't really portray the idea i had of visual movement although there is signs in there. i could have done this piece alot better but my time management was poor, i spent the best part of the project creating my 1 meerkat and neglected the time to animate them and show the true purpose of my piece.
On the plus side i did learn alot in Cinema 4D, how to sculpt how to add hair to an object so it was a learning curve for me. The ride that got me to this piece was up and down i didn't expect to have a conversation piece about animals especially about meerkats but i believe doing this amount of research leads you into different directions you wouldn't expect. This project opened up doors for my future projects the promise of Cinema 4D is exceptional, the software is amazing and with endless possibilities. With my primary research it was rather straight forward when i chose what i was going to pursue, going to a tropical zoo was really fun so i made my project into something i enjoyed doing not just stuck inside pulling my hair out. Coming up with various ideas was difficult since i tend to choose 1 theme and 1 idea and solely focus and that one but with this project i looked in to a few possible ideas and tested a few to see whether they would work or not and i think that's why my idea came across so clear cut and possible.
So ultimately my final piece wasn't the masterpiece or anywhere near decent enough but i believe my idea shon through and i delivered the message hidden within.
Tuesday, 2 December 2014
idea development for Vernacular project
As i was thinking of ways to take my research there was only 1 way i could think. Recently i got my bike back from my old house and started riding to and from university, something i use to do everyday. So my idea was to record my journey to University and capture the old and modern buildings. I remember watching a clip on Youtube of something similar but a guy with a cat on his shoulder, so i rewatched the clip (above) and discovered he also used cut scenes and time lapse in his video which was also interesting because that added to the effect. The time lapse was the most interesting and important as my video was only going to be 30 seconds long and the journey to University would normally take me around 15 minutes.
Having gotten my vague idea of what to do i started looking at time lapse videos and how effective they are.
Here i stumbled across my second idea which is rather amazing, This video is a time lapse of a house being built over months within 7 minutes, i had the idea of creating my own modern and old fashioned houses inspired by 2 buildings within Huddersfield and i was tryng to get my head around how and what methods i could use.
The next stage of my house building came to this. Game of Thrones! the opening scene to Game of Thrones is a master piece and absolutely amazing, it consists of the Game of Thrones world being created and constructed from a 2d map of the world of Westeros. The way the buildings build themselves is amazing, the inspiration i received off this piece had me change my second idea dramatically to attempt to recreate a part of Huddersfield town in this style, The Simpsons recently did an opening scene like this with Springfield making the towns build themselves from the ground up but in cartoon style which was rather awesome but i cant help but think i have bitten off more than i can chew.
Vernacular Project old and modern pics
For my Vernacular project i decided my starting point would be the old and modern buildings around huddersfields and how they conflict but also compliment eachother.
Here i took a walk and just took pictures of a couple that peaked my interest, but it was really interesting to see the old and modern buildings living together in a small town.
Tuesday, 21 October 2014
Cinema 4D progress
I used a picture i took of a Meerkat and began creating his body and arms, the body was a lot easier than the arms as it was a solid shape and not twists or turns but creating the shape posed a challenged. The arms proved difficult since i was making the character in 3D i took in mind how the arms would bend but eventually came up with a shape i was happy with.
As i progress i have created the Meerkats claws and have now started on the head which will be the most difficult as it contains features, to overcome this problem i will look at more tutorials on how to create facial features later on.
further into my creation and i have now added legs and feet, which was a difficult task, getting the rotation on the feet was key, i decided not to go ahead with the image for the feet as they were stuck out a lot so i made them as i went along and to my surprise came along really nicely. After the rotation the rest was fairly simple .
Creating the basic shape of the meerkat was tough but the real battle was defining the micro details to make the meerkat come to life, I started with the shape of the head to make it alot easier to add the eyes and nose but getting the definition and percision i wanted was time consuming and frustrating.
Here you can see further into development i studies the shape of a meerkat's head in detail looking at various pictures from different angles i positioned where to put the eyes and using the sculpting tool on cinema 4d i sculpted out the holes for the eyes and i also added more shape to the chin area and the back of the head positioned correct as i delved into more research and into the skeleton of a meerkat to get the best possible results.
I sat looking at my meerkat for hours, thinking how to approach the stage of adding fur, I tested alot of techniques, the thickness, the lengh, the depth, the shape of the fur, trying to get the perfect colour. The body is proving the most difficult as there are less points on the shape so increasingly harder to get the correct fur texture. But at this stage i am trying various ways to get the best out of my creation.
As i progress i hit wall after wall, on certain shapes there was not enough points for the hair to grow off so i ended up with the effect of the left arm. At this moment in time i dont know if its a good thing or bad. In order to be able to see the claws and feet i had to only add thin hair but i personally believe it works but now i am looking towards the finer details on the face and face the challenge of adding the ears and darker patches. Each stage i complete it is looking more and more like a meerkat and im happy about that.
My final stage of my creation was the facial features, eyes, nose, ears and shaping the head more. Cinema 4d is a complex programme to master, my meerkat has not come out as my head imagined it would but nevertheless a good effort i tried my hardest but the fur was the most difficult as the shapes were distorted and not enough roots to plant the hair so there were some darker patches and bald patches but also i could not define the facial features as much as i needed to add black fur but i could not change the colour in patches. Now i am focusing on replicating this meerkat and slightly altering it for my younger meerkat. Then further on i will look to animate my meerkats to clearly show visual conversations between the two.
Having created my meerkat i had to create the baby. I duplicated the daddy meerkat and shrunk it and adjusted it slightly to create this scene of a son looking up to his father for guidance, further on i will animate them to look as though, through visual language the son is following and learning from what the daddy meerkat is doing ultimately creating a conversation between the two.
Meerkats
Now chosen, i began to think how i was going to approach my final piece.
I chosen this clip to rein act but use visual words to show what they are saying. Im going to create the
2 meerkats in 3D using cinema 4D the animate them as accurate i can.
Personally the best animated meerkats for me were the compare the market adverts, using meerkats within the advert to attract attention, the meerkats came about due to their creator Darren Walsh from Passion Pictures studios, created by CGI the meerkats elevated the advert and appeared in 26 adverts to date.
I just added a quick example of one of the adverts, i believe they are super effective and just an example of a computer generated meerkat done perfectly.
I chosen this clip to rein act but use visual words to show what they are saying. Im going to create the
2 meerkats in 3D using cinema 4D the animate them as accurate i can.
Personally the best animated meerkats for me were the compare the market adverts, using meerkats within the advert to attract attention, the meerkats came about due to their creator Darren Walsh from Passion Pictures studios, created by CGI the meerkats elevated the advert and appeared in 26 adverts to date.
I just added a quick example of one of the adverts, i believe they are super effective and just an example of a computer generated meerkat done perfectly.
Sunday, 19 October 2014
creature comforts
from studying the animals at the zoo, i decided to further my research into Meerkats when i came across a series of short films, creature comforts. Created by Nick Park and Aardman studios the films present animated animals talking about life in a zoo through voices of the public recorded by Nick, Though my initial idea i had invisioned was animated animals with recorded animal sounds and i explain what i believe they are saying, this series is similar and a key research area to educate myself with to understand more how others have tackled the idea of conversation between animals.
I decided to add this clip of various Creature Comforts into one video just as a summary of some of the work created in ways this is amazingly similar to what i was thinking of doing though it doesn't reference Meerkats it has gave me more directions i could take my ideas but i am fixed on using animal sounds and voices to express the conversations.
I decided to add this clip of various Creature Comforts into one video just as a summary of some of the work created in ways this is amazingly similar to what i was thinking of doing though it doesn't reference Meerkats it has gave me more directions i could take my ideas but i am fixed on using animal sounds and voices to express the conversations.
Tuesday, 14 October 2014
Trip to Tropical World
for primary research i decided to visit Tropical World not far away from where i lived, i gathered videos and audio recordings to further my understanding of animal behaviour. There, i studied Birds, Snakes, Fish, Owl Monkeys, Bats and my favourite Meerkats! Unfortunately the only sounds i picked up were the birds, i would have relished the moment to capture meercats talking or snakes hissing. The audio i did get will be a big help to my research as they are both necessary and interesting.
Meercats from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
with multiple mini videos i filmed i strung them all together to show the behaviour and communication used by meerkats. The first meerkat was reacting to the sound of birds almost like it could understand what the birds were saying, its visual language indicated it wanted to join in with the conversation. The communication between the next 2 meerkats is spot on, you can clearly see it i father and son, as the smaller meerkat is looking up to the larger one waiting for commands. It strongly tell everyone that the meerkats are having a conversation through body language, which leads in to the last clip which i a group of meerkats and once again it is clear there is a mother and her children the way they crowd her and when it rolls over you get the sense of how comfortable they are. Although the visual language is there, Meerkats most common use of communication is vocal though not heard due to the sound of the birds.
fish from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
The next animal i tidied were fish. Constantly fish open and close their mouth for air and food but here i believe the fish are communicating the movement with the first fig is amazing and with imagination it could seem a the fish is yelling out trying to tell everyone something.
snake from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
bats and owl monkeys from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
I came across bats and could not resist but watch them for a good hour, just to watch them fly about, sleep and eat. In the form of speaking bats audio is minimal at best you can jut hear the flutter of their wing as they fly but in body language they make up for it as i captured a bat making a clear statement as it crawls over to another bat and bullies it to fly off, this is a clear conversation between the 2 bats and telling the other to 'get lost'.
The other creatures on this clip are owl monkeys, a species i have never come across but peaked my interest. Here i believe are a male and female they stick together and if 1 goes the other follows. But what i found amazing is when i called 1 it came to me and when i put my hand on the glass it put its hands on the glass, it tried to communicate with me, this was a brief moment so i could not capture it.
birds from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
Finally i come to the birds. The first clip was 2 birds exploring an area they have not been before, the body language is clear they are unfamiliar with the area and communicate with each other through chirping and interacting with each other.
The second clip i more interesting the bird seems to be eating alone but a loud chirp uncovers the bird was picking food for another, from the vial language i picked up it was the males female partner.
bird audio 2 from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
bird audio 1 from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
bird audio 3 from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
bird audio 4 from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
These are the 4 most appropriate audio clips i recorded, a i explained i only picked up bird sounds but they will help me reference towards my final ideas.
Meercats from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
with multiple mini videos i filmed i strung them all together to show the behaviour and communication used by meerkats. The first meerkat was reacting to the sound of birds almost like it could understand what the birds were saying, its visual language indicated it wanted to join in with the conversation. The communication between the next 2 meerkats is spot on, you can clearly see it i father and son, as the smaller meerkat is looking up to the larger one waiting for commands. It strongly tell everyone that the meerkats are having a conversation through body language, which leads in to the last clip which i a group of meerkats and once again it is clear there is a mother and her children the way they crowd her and when it rolls over you get the sense of how comfortable they are. Although the visual language is there, Meerkats most common use of communication is vocal though not heard due to the sound of the birds.
fish from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
The next animal i tidied were fish. Constantly fish open and close their mouth for air and food but here i believe the fish are communicating the movement with the first fig is amazing and with imagination it could seem a the fish is yelling out trying to tell everyone something.
snake from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
I then moved on to snakes, snakes both interest but care me. Their main form of conversation is associated with a 'hiss' sound made by their tongue, i believe for 2 purposes, because snakes are partially blind and use the tongue for extra direction and also for communication. Snakes biggest form of conversation comes from their visual language the way they slither around and in the clip followed my finger to familiarise itself. I also added the image of the snake on the tree simply because its a statement in its own right. It strikes you to say the snake i dominant and comfortable and is in control.
bats and owl monkeys from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
I came across bats and could not resist but watch them for a good hour, just to watch them fly about, sleep and eat. In the form of speaking bats audio is minimal at best you can jut hear the flutter of their wing as they fly but in body language they make up for it as i captured a bat making a clear statement as it crawls over to another bat and bullies it to fly off, this is a clear conversation between the 2 bats and telling the other to 'get lost'.
The other creatures on this clip are owl monkeys, a species i have never come across but peaked my interest. Here i believe are a male and female they stick together and if 1 goes the other follows. But what i found amazing is when i called 1 it came to me and when i put my hand on the glass it put its hands on the glass, it tried to communicate with me, this was a brief moment so i could not capture it.
birds from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
Finally i come to the birds. The first clip was 2 birds exploring an area they have not been before, the body language is clear they are unfamiliar with the area and communicate with each other through chirping and interacting with each other.
The second clip i more interesting the bird seems to be eating alone but a loud chirp uncovers the bird was picking food for another, from the vial language i picked up it was the males female partner.
bird audio 2 from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
bird audio 1 from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
bird audio 3 from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
bird audio 4 from Ryan Tailby on Vimeo.
These are the 4 most appropriate audio clips i recorded, a i explained i only picked up bird sounds but they will help me reference towards my final ideas.
Saturday, 11 October 2014
conversations between birds, parrots
Bird communication is, for me the most interesting of any animal. They use such a large variety of ways to communicate from singing, to tweeting and chirping but for birds their behavior is what defines them. Their posture, Movement and flocking all forms of visual communication. Common birds mostly come out when it is good weather early in the morning their chirps are really subtle and calming, this is communication between birds but i personally feel as if the birds also talk to me.
I believe this brief video epitomizes what i was saying, the birds calm the atmosphere of the surroundings as we see it but they are just communicating and having conversations with eachother its quite spectacular i must say.
There are many types of birds but the most famous has got to be parrots. Parrots are known to be clever and replicate, with some practice what we say which in its own right is really amazing.
I thought i would add these videos of Einstein the parrot to show an example that with training an animal can talk like a human its weird and wonderful and through the parrot alone you can see how much his owner must have engaged and had conversations with the parrot.
i have also added 2 clips from my favourite programme Family Guy to see a different and exceedingly hilarious perspective on parrots through the eyes of Seth Macfarlane, But deep down the same principle of the parrot picking up what has been said.
I believe this brief video epitomizes what i was saying, the birds calm the atmosphere of the surroundings as we see it but they are just communicating and having conversations with eachother its quite spectacular i must say.
There are many types of birds but the most famous has got to be parrots. Parrots are known to be clever and replicate, with some practice what we say which in its own right is really amazing.
I thought i would add these videos of Einstein the parrot to show an example that with training an animal can talk like a human its weird and wonderful and through the parrot alone you can see how much his owner must have engaged and had conversations with the parrot.
i have also added 2 clips from my favourite programme Family Guy to see a different and exceedingly hilarious perspective on parrots through the eyes of Seth Macfarlane, But deep down the same principle of the parrot picking up what has been said.
Friday, 10 October 2014
Conversations between dogs
Dogs in some ways are similar to cats, they are thought as pets and usually live in doors. when they communicate its with a 'woof', bark or growl. A woof to us can mean alot of things depending on the dog, a loud bark normally means the dog is unsettled or afraid but on the other hand a can also mean excitement. A growl indicates the dog is being teritorial where as a quiet squeaky bark screams the dog is in pain.
Just like a cat the dog uses visual communication such as scratching at the door to signal it wants to go outside or wagging of tail and tongue out if the dog is in a playful mood. Dogs are famous for being trained to do certain 'tricks' such as sit, roll over, hand shaking, fetch and so on, this to me shows a conversation happening between a dog and a human.
This is a clip of a husky, appearing to say 'i love you' it sounds alot like it its unbelievable!
i included this clip to show how dogs have a conversation, unlike the cats the dogs have a far more rougher approach when talking to eachother apart from the barking the visual communication is alot stronger and more aggressive (not harming each other in any way).
Just like a cat the dog uses visual communication such as scratching at the door to signal it wants to go outside or wagging of tail and tongue out if the dog is in a playful mood. Dogs are famous for being trained to do certain 'tricks' such as sit, roll over, hand shaking, fetch and so on, this to me shows a conversation happening between a dog and a human.
This is a clip of a husky, appearing to say 'i love you' it sounds alot like it its unbelievable!
i included this clip to show how dogs have a conversation, unlike the cats the dogs have a far more rougher approach when talking to eachother apart from the barking the visual communication is alot stronger and more aggressive (not harming each other in any way).
Conversations between cats
Cats are mostly associated with being 'pets' for people but are mostly outside exploring, they talk most commonly with the phrase 'meow' but thats only how people can hear it, to other cats its language. From my observation a low pitch 'meow' often means its unhappy or in confrontation with another cat warning it off, but a high pitch 'meow' is when its in pain or had a shock. I own 2 cats and some are different from others. When a cat purs it says it is comfortable and likes its surroundings, this usually happens when the cat is being stroaked.
Cats also communicate with eachother is through body expressions, the way they act and their postures mainly say 1 of 2 things, come closer or go away.
The main communication between cats are the scents, i have 2 cats so i frequently see them rubbing their cheeks together or licking eachother's head meaning they are comfortable with eachother.
This video is a perfect example of what im looking into, how they communicate with eachother is through their own language but also through body language aswell. Just by watching you can almost guess the words in their conversation.
i added this video to show that cats can say alot more than 'meow'. Cats dont only talk to other cats they try and communicate with people aswell and thats what makes them exciting and unpredictable.
Cats also communicate with eachother is through body expressions, the way they act and their postures mainly say 1 of 2 things, come closer or go away.
The main communication between cats are the scents, i have 2 cats so i frequently see them rubbing their cheeks together or licking eachother's head meaning they are comfortable with eachother.
This video is a perfect example of what im looking into, how they communicate with eachother is through their own language but also through body language aswell. Just by watching you can almost guess the words in their conversation.
i added this video to show that cats can say alot more than 'meow'. Cats dont only talk to other cats they try and communicate with people aswell and thats what makes them exciting and unpredictable.
Thursday, 9 October 2014
Conversation between animals
My research that led to the trapped theme i thought was a little off brief so i had to rethink what i was doing. I decided to follow conversations between animals, this theme is much closer to me and alot more extract, since i love animals i will enjoy working on this project alot more.
Trapped
An element i pieced up on and intrigued me was the idea of being trapped, you can approach this at various directions, will it be humorous or serious. For example a funny scenario of being trapped can appear in cartoons when characters fall down dug up holes. But on the other hand serious trapped situations can happen as the film 127 hours.
In this film a man called Aron goes rock climbing in a massive canyon and has an accident where his arm is crushed and trapped between 2 rocks and he has to survive and find a way to set himself free. Ultimately he has to cut his arm off but the way the film is created it is a perfect example of the horrors of being trapped.

Being trapped not always has to be physical but also mental. you can be emotionally trapped, either in a relationship or trapped in a daily routine.
In this film a man called Aron goes rock climbing in a massive canyon and has an accident where his arm is crushed and trapped between 2 rocks and he has to survive and find a way to set himself free. Ultimately he has to cut his arm off but the way the film is created it is a perfect example of the horrors of being trapped.

Being trapped not always has to be physical but also mental. you can be emotionally trapped, either in a relationship or trapped in a daily routine.
ideas to extract from transcript
From my transcript i took ideas from various angles on how i could take my conversation, i thought of expressing it through a comic with its humour and witty perceptions on how you could create a conversation and how creative and free you could think of doing it. But there are other ways to do it as an animation sequence it can be done in so many ways, it can be abstract or real life footage taken transformed into abstract and theres also the cartoon twist. But at this stage I'm broadening my ideas and options.
Another starting point could be the feelings taken from the conversation, for example what i took from my conversation was the couple felt trapped in their own home. Also there were legal boundaries being stretched and twisted, but ultimately to me it was funny and thats a big factor I'm planning on incorporating in my work.
From this brainstorm i took the idea of a comic and began to think more into it. i read some of my comics strongly themed around batman as i love him but the i began to narrow it down. I wanted to create a black and white comic.
This is just 1 of the pages i took a picture of in one of my batman comics so then i created mine attempting to make it as thrilling and entertaining as this one.
This was my attempt at a black and white comic, using the conversation to begin with about a couple trapped in their home by a fence i believe i approached it rather well adding humour into the story with my cartoons.
Tuesday, 30 September 2014
A Conversation
The first brief was to record you and another person talking about an article in the newspaper. Ultimately i picked a rather dull subject and made it interesting to talk about, my article was about a couple trapped in their own home by a 6 foot fence built around their house by developers who own the land around them, their reason to do this was because their house was messy and they never cleaned their garden, on my record there was me and Nathan Lewis talking about it and we talked about what we would do if it happened to us and the issues it would cause.
i then did a transcript of the conversation, i then came up with the idea of having the conversation on my iPhone. So through iMessage me and Nathan recreated the conversation through text. At this stage I'm only thinking of different ways to present the conversation and how to move forward with it.
i then did a transcript of the conversation, i then came up with the idea of having the conversation on my iPhone. So through iMessage me and Nathan recreated the conversation through text. At this stage I'm only thinking of different ways to present the conversation and how to move forward with it.
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